Pros – Possible depth, comedy, possibilities for good artistic . . . stuff
Special effects (ghost?) Fun story
Most possibility for scalability, visual style
Emotions expressed through animation, can be detailed or simplified easily
Simple themes/animation will allow us to put more into it
Fun car crash scene?
Strongest emotional center/appeal
Character based
“less is more”
Doesn’t have to be cliché ghost town, haunted castle in Europe?
Cons – Killing people to get more friends? Possession?
Unbalanced story: loneliness then death then more friends?
15 comments:
Pros: Fun Ghost Shader, Loneliness theme is a good one, Could be scaled
cons: Morbid (i see as a pro, but maybe not for general audiences) lots of characters and cars to model, do we have that many modelers/texturers?
I'm so torn on this one. It does have great acting potential and it could be as big or small as we want. Plus we could make it look really cool.
But...
the main thing that bothers me is the ending. I've been turning some ideas over in my head about the ending, and I can't seem to shake the uncomfortable feeling that comes with everyone dying. Sure he has friends now, but... they died. They were going somewhere, living their lives, and now they're stuck here with our ghost. I think there could be a way to soften this blow a bit if we chose this story, but it would take very careful treatment to get the tone (i.e, the reactions of the carpeople to their suddenly being dead) exactly right so it doesn't feel wrong, ya know? And it's a crucial element to the story, so it's not like we can just drop it without reworking the whole thing.
I am with Rachel on this one. I like the overall idea, but the ending has serious problems. The ghost kills these people so he can have friends. If I was one of the people killed by the ghost, I would not stick around to be his friend. I don't know, something about being chummy with a serial killer.
I just don't know how this would be accepted by a wide audience. As uptight as the world is now days, the message of this film could really be taken the wrong way and I would hate for something like that to reflect poorly on the Church.
So, Mike mentioned that this doesn't have to be a cliche ghost town. Ireland would make a fun setting for the film if we wanted another option to the western setting. There are "haunted" buildings and castles all over the country.
Maybe our ghost is the former owner of a (now vacant and run down) countryside inn. He's lonely, so he frequents the nearby road to get people to come to his inn, etc, etc...you all know the rest. It's just another option. I'm not a huge fan of the "ghost town" setting as it has been overdone in the past (not to mention "The Sheriff is a Chicken"), but I do like the overall storyline and tone.
And to make it seem more like an accident, he could break the steering wheel off or something. There are plenty of possibilities to make it less morbid.
I really like the idea of the steering wheel breaking off. And then you don't have to show the crash. A really funny moment could be the look on everyone's face when the steering wheel breaks off and then we could cut to black, and then cut to them all looking annoyed at the ghost, now that they are all ghosts. I really think we're overreacting in saying that is too morbid.
Ok, I've thought a lot about this one.
1) I see the crash as THE best thing in the film, and the deaths as some of THE funniest things. The crash has always been pitched as an accident, not murder--the ghost somehow screws up and accidentally kills one guy--then another. Then another. Then a camper with like 8 people in it. Then a semi. Then...you get the idea.
And we actually don't have to "see" any of these characters (except for the first of course) but when they die (as the crash is progressing) what we see is the car crunch and a soft whisper as a ghost pops out of the vehicle instantly. I see this "pop" or "swoosh" sound similar to prince of egypt's when the firstborn are taken, except with a slightly humorous bend to it--to make it SOUND funny to die. That would lighten everything, and, I think, would be pretty dang funny if the timing was right.
I'm actually quite a fan of doing not a typical western town. However, I think that this could be done with weather and lighting. (I see the story happening completely on an unusual, overcast day with rich colors--like the opening of Ratatouille).
It also helps to provide a somber mood, wherein a sunny ghost town is kind of like you expect a shootout.
Also I like the idea of having tons of personality in the vehicles--make the vehicles like characters themselves. It could be people stuck behind a semi truck (so the ghost would posess the semi truck driver) or it could be like a family reunion. I like teh family reunion because it kind of has some spiritual undertones and maybe even symbolism that isn't intended (like in the last shot--everyone is together after they are dead...and they're happy too. Hey, maybe the ghost gets adopted! That would be a happy ending).
I will post more ideas as I receive them. Later!
As for the quantity of ghosts, I see use taking a very simple approach. When a person turns into a ghost it's like in the Little Mermaid when people get turned into seaweed--they all look exactly the same (same rig, same model even maybe) but one has a mustache, one has glasses, one has a bow, and other such accessories that differentiate one from another. I see this as a quick and effective (and artsy!) way of dealing with as many unique ghosts as we would like to. It is, however, just an idea.
i really like this idea, i think Dave was very creative in coming up with it. It's quite original, too!
BUT- like Rachel and Cam said, i am really disturbed by the ending. About 3 weeks ago, a coworker of mine didn't show up for work one day, and within about an hour of the opening shift someone came in to explain that he had died in a car accident the night before on a ride back to BYU from his hometown in AZ. It was chilling to have that empty desk at the cubicle next to mine, knowing that i would NEVER see him again (at least during this life). I realize that through the gospel we know that doctrine-wise death is not the end, but it's a bit different in actual application.
I have a good friend and current roommate who i grew up with in the Seattle area whose family got in a car accident when he was young on a road trip in Florida. His oldest brother, 18, was killed instantly, and his other brother was burned heavily and still has bald pathes in his scalp scars over his entire body, and had heavy brain damage that basically ruined his life.
I dunno, those of us who have lost someone very close to them, especially through a car accident, feel the void of that loss, and it simply isnt something to laugh at. The conclusion also makes it seem like death is a curse- the victims of his tampering with their lives and possession end up trapped just like him in the ghost town (or wherever we decide), and if we did make all the ghosts the same, we also have a suggested theme of loss of identity and individuality, which drags me down a little.
If the ghost accidentally caused the death of these families and people and stuff, we would have to really show his bitter lamentations before they show up and comfort him or whatever. Hit that note hard.
I'm always a fan of the "lighten up" mentality, but i just cant swing it in this case. We gotta figure out something else fundamentally about this story before i'll feel good working on it. I don't want to sound all extreme and stuff, Thats just how i feel about it.
PS, i dunno, i never liked Casper. Ive had too many bad experiences with weird crap like that throughout my life, call me superstitious.
I never understood the pitch as having tons of cars in it, and the ghost killing lots of people. I think it was funnier when it was just that one car, and it would keep it short. And I don't think showing the car crash makes it funnier at all. I think showing the reactions of the characters is the funny part.
I think as far as emotions at the end go, I think the funniest is to have the ghost happy that he has friends, and the people annoyed at him.
I agree with Rogan. We're getting way too complicated with multiple cars/characters. We need to keep this simple, as that simplicity would help to serve the story.
Like Ryan said, stories need some sort of big pay off in the end to make it satisfying. We don't want this to get muddy as it would take away from the great ending.
And it won't be morbid unless we treat it as such. It's all in the execution (no pun intended).
Yeah I don't see a long drawn out crash scene making it any funnier.
I just talked with Jeremy about this and felt I should post some of our comments/misconceptions. Jeremy was totally with Rogan as to what he felt the best humor in the short was--the fact that everyone that died was mad at the ghost. I on the other hand would just like to say that I'm actually against having the people that died be mad at the ghost because I feel that is a little of what everyone is calling "morbid." For me the funniest part was that a small little ghost makes one small mistake and that it compounds slowly into a big one--and yes, I agree with Rogan that the funniest stuff would be to see the horror on the ghost's face at what has happened. I've also thought that the possession itself might not be an act of selfishness, but accidental (the lead car drives right into the ghost, for example)
All these ideas, are, of course, my personal take on the story as I try to work out some things in my mind. Obviously as you come up with solutions more problems arise, and the only hope I have is that the new problems are hopefully smaller than the one I tried to solve.
To continue my personal feelings on the ghost character. If we go with the story of "one small mistake can have untold consequences" then here is how I see it:
A cute and very innocent little female ghost is very lonely. She's lost her family long ago, having died before they did. There's no Ghost Town--just a solitary and abandoned church next to a lonely highway. There's a graveyard with only one little gravestone--hers. She's all alone. And no one can see her because she's a ghost. Only on All Souls Day (or other stellar event) does she become visible, so she looks forward to it each year as she hopes to communicate with someone. But each year no one comes by. "This year will be different" she thinks to herself. "This year I'll find someone to talk to!" But as the night and day wear on no one drives by on the highway. No, not one. Then--what's that! A speeding motorcycle! She tries to make herself seen but the motorcycle flies by whooossh! And then a big semi but it's too tall and she's too small. Whoosh! She's so sad, and the day is almost over and she's going to become invisible again soon and no one will ever see her. "What's one more year without seeing anybody?" she thinks. "I've already been through so many..." She sighs and turns to go back to her grave. But right at the last second, in the dusk, she see's something--headlights! And it's not one car, but lots of them! A whole family of cars! So she jumps into the road to try and make herself visible, but they are playing Parcheesi in the car and eating Chinese food so they don't see her at first. When they do, it's too late--she scares the first driver so bad that the driver swerves off the road and causes a terrible accident.
The little ghost is mortified as the accident progresses from one tiny mistake into a huge catastrophic explosion. She thinks she's done something absolutely terrible when, then, out of the explosion, emerge a bunch of ghosts rubbing their behinds and popping the cricks in their necks. Each one has a fortune cookie.
"Your favorite ice cream is disaster."
"You should think about buckling your seat belt today."
"When opportunity jumps in your way, it is best to be paying attention."
"You will find love from an unexpected source."
And then we see a shot of the cute little ghost and the family adopts her or walks into the old church with her or something. I don't know. Something endearing.
This is the "big" version of the story. We could quickly and easily simplify it into one car with a family in it of 1-2 people. As it stands, there's one building, one grave, and maybe 3-6 cars. Again, maybe it's bad of me to go into specifics, but just understand I'm brainstorming here and would expect and hope people will get ideas of their own that improve and amplify what is here. Also, this is just ONE version of ghost story. I bet once we get into it we could have 5-10 versions, as with any of the stories that we have discussed. I just spent some time on Ghost Story because it was my favorite.
I can see both sides to this story, and I have a couple solutions, take them for what they're worth.
For those who think the crash is too morbid, we could have some sort of cliff scene (i just realized that's from Lemmings, huh?) where the ghost accidentally drives the car off the cliff. That could make it more humorous and take away from the "seriousness" of the crash.
For those who are down with the crash scene (i still haven't made up my mind yet) I think having the cars as characters is a great idea, and we could just take one model and stretch/squash it to get different models (like Jeremy was talking about for the crowd in the "Mime" story) Good potential for cool explosions here and whatnot.
And there's really cool potential to make these people really designy, I took Joe Olson's class this last semester, and he has some really simple yet incredible designs in a style that would be really fun to emulate.
Anyway, just a few ideas to throw out there, I've been really silent as far as these pitches go, and I feel we all need to say what we're thinking and get it out there.
Ok, I think I'm running with Abbey's idea of it being set in Ireland. Not only because the visuals would be sweet, but also I did some research and Halloween's history is integrally tied with an Irish feast called Samhain (not sure how that's pronounced). Samhain means "Summer's End" in Gaelic. Our traditions of dressing up as underworld creatures and carving pumpkins (they used turnips) into monsters originate in Ireland in the 19th century. I'm not sure how or if any of this sort of stuff will make it in the short but I thought I'd throw it out there since I'm probably going to run with it because I feel there's some real meat here.
Also, on Samhain they believed that the underworld was closer to our world and that creatures and ghosts and stuff would walk around on that day. They dressed up so that they would "fit in" with the crowd. I think maybe it would be cool to have some kid dressed up in a ghost costume meeting a ghost...
Next topic of research is leprechauns.
So here's an Irish version of Ghost town. I took the idea of possession in the original story and extrapolated it into what I consider a funny story. I would really like people's opinion's on this. Did it make you laugh? Can you see the characters' personalities?
In a beautiful Irish countryside there lives a sheep, a dog, and their red-haired farmer. One morning the farmer comes out to the yard with his big dog to shear the sheep. But the sheep is terrified and right when the farmer is about to put the shears to his skin, the sheep dies from fright. The farmer doesn't notice, but the sheep's ghost does, and it's kind of spiteful about it, and so the sheep charges into the body of the farmer, knocking out the spirit of the farmer which runs into the dog, knocking out the dog's spirit. The sheep's spirit starts choking the farmer's body and banging its head against the fence. "Baaaa! Baaaa! Baaa!" screams the farmer's body with each hit. And the farmer's spirit (now in the dog) is horrified as he watches himself being beaten to death, so he starts attacking himself, trying to keep himself from damage. In the meantime, the dog's spirit possesses the once-dead sheep and the sheep starts barking, biting, and head butting the others. They wrestle it out with a few gags for awhile with spirits bouncing in and out of each other's bodies. The fight moves over the fence and onto the nearby highway where right when everyone is at each other's throats a car comes and WHAM! hits all three of them. All that's left is their spirits in the exact same pose as before the car whizzed by (their bodies flew off screen so fast you couldn't really see it). They look at each other a second and then the short ends.
I see this short as being a testimony of the futility of revenge, as well as being animal-activist friendly. Sort of.
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